dan lothian is at the white house. dan, what do you know? >> reporter: well, this is the second phone conversation now that the president has had with speaker boehner with regards to the fiscal cliff. this call, according to a source familiar with it, told me it lasted for 28 minutes. this official saying it was hardly short or curt, as had been reported by some news outlets. and my colleague, jessica yellen, heard from another source that said that the president told speaker boehner that he felt that rates had to go up on wealthy americans and that there would be no deal without that. so clearly, there is still some distance between the two sides here. the president believing that wealthy americans need to pay more. those bush era tax cuts should not extend for them. republicans believing that all americans should benefit from those tax cuts, and that now you should put en titlements on the table. of as we see, the officials from the white house going up to capitol hill today, treasury secretary timothy geithner, to try to hammer out some d